More on beliefs…

In reading my last few blogs I have been noticing that all of you have many different opinions and beliefs centered around religion and spirituality.

A friend of mine, who sometimes checks out my blog, was suggesting that an interesting question to pose would be: What is it that solidified these beliefs? Why believe in what you believe in?

This site has proven to be such a place of respect and honor as well as honest communication and exchanges, so I am so looking forward to hearing all the different perspectives.

Thanks!
Xo
Allison

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  • Rachel531

    Wow, over 131 comments in just a day! That’s what I get when I don’t read Allison’s blog every night….:)

    I loved the quote from Gandhi that Stephanie posted and totally agree with here…“Religions are different roads converging upon the same point. What does it matter that we take different roads, so long as we reach the same goal” – Gandhi

    My faith – my belief without total understanding – is that if we try to live our lives to do good in the world and to help those less fortunate regardless of what actual religion you follow, then we will be able to join God and Jesus in Paradise (Heaven) when it is our time. I was raised Catholic as well, and went through all the sacraments. I don’t necessarily agree with all the doctrines of the church, but there is something comforting to me knowing that I share a faith with millions of others that can trace it’s origins back to the time of Jesus when St. Peter was chosen to be Jesus’ “Rock” on which his church would be built.

    I remember going on my honeymoon in Rome and visiting one of the Four major basilicas as a history lesson of sorts. Along the ceiling was a picture of every pope that was ever chosen starting with St. Peter being the first “pope” and ending with Pope John Paul II (who was pope at the time of my honeymoon and the only pope I had known my entire life). I remember thinking that popes are human like everyone else and not infallible and can make bad judgments as well – that’s what makes us human after all. However, it really hit me hard while I was standing in the middle of this massive church looking up at these hundreds of portraits along the ceiling that I finally felt this connection to this man known as Jesus – and it was laid out so neatly in these papal portraits, like a family tree, with me as the very last link. That was a defining moment for me in what I chose to believe..

    P.S. – I love watching that John Edwards show “Crossover” and when I am bawling my eyes curled up on my couch watching these people connect with loved ones who are in the after life, it just makes me realize that I’m a believer in heaven and that what we do in this life will determine whether we can enter heaven and see our loved ones once again… whether people think it’s a crock of sh*t or the real deal… I now know what I wish to believe…and I’m ok with that…Peace!

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    I never really said what I believe here. Does God look like us? Does He have a beard? Does “made in his image” refer to our bodies or our souls. I don’t know. I never said that if you can’t answer all the questions in the universe, there must be a God. I just think that you can’t rule out God by pointing out how marvelous the universe is in the way it works. And if people have the right to dismiss without impartial investigation things like life after life experiences, cases suggestive of reincarnation, angel encounters, demon encounters, close encounters of the third kind …. then I should have the right to not think of things like the big bang theory as anything more than amusements. After all, it still is only a theory, not a law. Just like the theory of relativity is still a theory … but a theory that says it’s very unlikely that people will be visiting other solar systems anytime soon. There is evidence of higher intelligence out there – whether God or alien or dolphin. Someone knew that the Jewish people better not be eating dairy and meat together on the same wooden plates that they used since they didn’t have refrigeration. Someone knew about germs long before Doctors believed in them or the practice of washing their hands before treating a patient. People who believe in anything assume things. People who are conscious assume things. We have enough evidence and know enough to live our complex lives, but not without leaving messes in the process. But do we have enough evidence to rule out anything as the source of everything? Big Bang … or big turtle carrying the universe on it’s back. I’m glad some people think they have the answers. That must be very comforting for you. But so is apathy. You may say that apathy leads to ignorance. But if you want to know the difference between ignorance and apathy … I don’t know …and I don’t care. That’s the difference. At least that’s something I can answer.

  • The Friday Philosopher

    Amanda,

    I would have to agree with you’re last statement. Not a single one of us would recognise each other if we passed on the street but the fact that we can be respectful to each other whilst visiting this Cyber Community, is surely an indication that perhaps we should be more respectful to the strangers we do pass on the street. If we’re honest, we know them just as much as we know each other; besides, you never know if one of them might be another avid blog fan, just like yourself!

    I’ve been thinking about this for a few days now, I’m in a good mood because I decided that today I would extend at least a “Hello” to every passer-by, and unexpectedly, every single one I passed returned the gesture. This made me realise that the people that don’t usually speak to others on the street are not bad people, their just people suffering with the same concerns as the rest of us!

    I hope you all have a great weekend. :)

    Friday

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    Hello to you as well, Friday!

    =====

    I loved this old science fiction movie. Astronauts have landed on another planet. They are searching through a forest and send back a progress report. “We have found absolutely no signs of life.” DUH! Forest … trees … LIVING trees. Did they mean “animal life” or “life like us” or “intelligent life that we can recognize as intelligent life” ?? I hope that aliens don’t land in the lobby of the building where I work. They wouldn’t find any signs of intelligent life either … present poster not excepted. It could be worse. They could arrive at the White House.

    Look at a glass. Is it half empty or half full? Neither. It is half full of soda pop and half full of air. There is something there whether we recognize it or give it credit for existing or not.

    Like I said in my previous post, I don’t claim God exists because science hasn’t answered everything yet. But it almost feels to me that some people think that, since they can’t find acceptable proof to them that God exists, then human beings are, in essence, gods. We determine what’s right and wrong. We make the rules. And someone said that religion is wish fulfillment – that people invented what they wanted. Who wants Hell? Let’s have a show of hands. Or is Hell something that normal people just want for others that they don’t like and never imagine going anywhere other than a paradise?

    Oh, opinions are welcome. Am I just the graffiti painter of the Allison Mack blog … or is this what this place is intended for?

  • Vegas911

    I believe that I breath air….people say you can’t see it…but tell that to someone standing outside in 20 degree wheather….I can see it, so I only believe in what my eyes tell me, I don’t even believe in my other senses like I do my eyesight….so show it to me, prove it to me and then I will believe it…til then don’t expect me to be a person to go on faith…I have it…just not in a big invisible dude in the sky.

  • Amanda

    For skahahoo (love that name by the way) sorry…I just read your post.

    “And a question…I understand and have seen how Christians acquire a sense of humility…the loss of ego that Amanda referred to. But doesn’t this come AFTER accepting God and Jesus into your heart?”

    I’m not sure if this was a general question or not but I thought I’d answer. Ok. When we accept Jesus as a personal savior (i.e. become a “born again” Christian) we are changed from the inside out. We’re different than we were before. Humility comes from getting a glimpse of how very big God is and how small we are. Yet, we matter to Him. The Bible says He knows the very number of hairs on our head. He’s a personal God who knows what we need when we need it. I can’t tell you how many times or in how many ways he has met my needs when there was no other explanation. So, yes it is both humbling and beyond comprehension to be loved so unconditionally. Hope that answers your question. =)

  • Vegas911

    And David spray away man, your graffiti is always welcome!!!

  • Amanda

    Hey Friday–not sure if you know this, but it is expected in the South to speak to those you meet. Sometimes I forget when I’m travelling in other parts of the country that it’s not the norm everywhere. I’ve gotten some strange looks from people I’ve said “hey” to as I passed them on the sidewalks. Like–am I supposed to know you? It’s hilarious. But, its ok. Your last post made me think about the commercial that shows how one good deed leads to another (not sure what they were selling but I’ve always liked that commercial) :)

  • Kirk D. aka “Spartacus”

    Some personal observations after reading some of the comments:

    What is the definition of God?
    Based on what I can gather, God is a person, but unlike any person we have ever seen or known. God is all-power, all-knowing, and all-sufficient and so much more. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the starter that starts all things and the ender that ends all things.

    He isn’t limited by the laws that govern this universe He created, He isn’t trapped in this physical existence, He exists outside of this universe and is the essence of existence, and is intimately involved in this fallen reflection of what existence means to him. He is closer to us than anyone or anything we know. He knows us better than we know ourselves, because we can lie to ourselves especially in matters of the heart.

    He is significantly “other” than his creation and yet his creations reflects many of His attributes though it is a poor reflection. He doesn’t have to reveal Himself, but he does. And though we see through a glass dimly we shall know even as we are known. And he longs to restore what has been lost, our purpose in life and our relationship with him.

    Unless he reveals Himself to us, we are like children walking around in the dark, among great shifting objects & shadows, feeling our way around, bumping into those objects and each other. We are blind unless he turns on the light. The scary thing is what will we do when the light gets turned on?

    I believe the light has come into the world. But for fear that our deeds would be found out for what they are, we hide from the light. Those that chose to walk in the light as He is in the light show that they agree with what has been revealed. They in turn don’t become the light, but reflectors of the light. Like the moon that reflects the suns light at night. I have come across many that claim to reflect that light, but they are more like “sons of thunder”! All noise and no light. That use to be me. But the more I walk in the light the more I see about me, that needs to change and He helps me and empowers me to do so. Before I can think about changing others I must 1st, be changing myself. And since this is a life long project of walking with God until my time is up on this planet. The goal is to reflect that light more clearly as the days go by, and if the light that I claim to reflect can’t be seen, it only proves that I still need to be cleaned. After the words have been spoken, it is actions that speak louder that words. Faith and works go hand and hand. Long after the words I have spoken fade the impact of my actions will leave a good or bad legacy to remain in the lives that I have touched.

    That’s wuz up, for me!

  • Darwin

    Vegas 911…I’m no doctor…I don’t even play one on tv…

    But I believe what someone is seeing in minus 20 is carbon dioxide…making a cloud as we exhale…as it is warmer than the air.

    Which leads one to wonder if REALLY bad breath is a different color?

    But as I live where it reached 55 below F in February…I know I don’t see the air coming in…

    But I FEEL it.

    Which is MORE solid to me in this instance.

    Same thing with God.

    And one’s eyes can be decieved…

    People have been making a living doing that for centuries…deceiving people’s eyes.

    Criss Angell – Mindfreak no doubt pulls in some decent coin.

    However I would have difficulty believing in some invisible being in the sky…except the God I know is not invisible…

    Just not in view at the moment…like a parent with a great baby monitor.

    It has been said that a day to God is a thousand years to us…

    So if someone lived to be a hundred years old…that would be ten percent of God’s day…or 2.4 hours of 24.

    Not really long to leave a kid alone…most parents leave their babies alone longer than that with monitor in place.

    But within that span… a little less and 2 and a half hours… we can do some amazing things….if we get a whole hundred years…and many have done wonders…made a great difference with far less.

    I think quality of life is what we are all talking about here.

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    Hmmm. Travelling outside the solar system. Do you think someone installed invisible fencing in a spherical diameter approximating the orbit of Pluto to keep us in? If that is the case, I can just imagine how the dogs will laugh as they continue past us on their outward journey of exploration!

    I think I need another can of spray paint. Be back later.

  • http://www.myspace.com/shinefloyd_luigi shinefloyd / luigi

    to I’m Rachel…..
    Rachel…. please don’t apologize…
    I was only making a joke… about my name..
    I have to say you… sorry

    ok…
    best wishes to you Rachel
    stay cool

  • Haley Keith

    Hmmmm… Hey Allison! I’m very glad that you decided to put up a blog about this because its something that i am very passionate about! :) But im in a hurry (you know how that is) so ill have to post my blog later! Also i was wondering what are your thoughts on this topic? Tell us what you think and believe in.

    xoxo,
    Haley

  • Puffy

    Hey David H,

    Because responding to your graffiti is always fun:

    “people invented what they wanted. Who wants Hell?” For me the answer swings back to ideas of reward and punishment from a few posts back. Heaven is reward, hell is punishment. If everyone went to heaven, then why would anyone try to be better behaved or give more to collection plate? Hell needed to exist as a threat to make people model the appropiate behaviours.

    And to Vegas911 – I hadn’t heard about the doping scandal, but then again Australia is really only concerned about how many gold medals we have so our view is a little narrow. But in general, I don’t think the rest of the world hates Americans. We find you confusing, sometimes silly, sometimes arrogant and capable of bad choices just like everyone else. Having been there a couple of times and from the US citizens I have met, the people who are ready to hate Americans most readily seem to be Americans themselves.

  • arash

    One thing that has always amazed me is “Instinct” (well I liked the movie too). It is the knowledge we are born with. When the little turtle hatches the egg in the middle of woods he knows he has to go to water and he knows which dirrection it is. For years I tried to explain this, I came up with the theory of inherited memory. Now imagine if we inherit all of our mom and dad’s memories (prior to our conception) but they are all switched off at birth and we can only retrieve those nessessary for survival which we use at birth. Then we all have this archive of millions of years of memories back of our mind. Now doesn’t that explain reincarnation. May be that’s why our brain gets bigger and bigger, we are storing something. May be we turn some of those swithes on when we go to sleep.

    Okay allison if one day you made this to a movie, remember me when you are cashing it in.

  • Dick B

    Beliefs

    I like the way people are opening up in this forum… As for myself, I have much conflict between my mind and my heart as far as beliefs are concerned. I loved the question “Where’s Waldo?” asked by Kris. I would also ask, “What’s Waldo?”

    Before revealing too much of that, some questions. I think as you grow older you begin to find some answers but these answers are like a small balloon that expands gradually inside a much larger balloon that expands much faster. Every answer can lead to 10 questions you hadn’t thought of before.

    Possible subjects for discussion:
    Selfishness vs. Selflessness
    Faith vs. Reason
    Belief in something greater than oneself vs. Man is the measure of all things.
    Authority vs. Induction
    All knowing vs. All powerful i.e. If you know what’s going to happen, do you have the power to change it?

    I like donuts too, especially Krispy Kreme.

  • I’m Rachel

    Shinefloyd,

    Glad to hear you like keeping things light hearted. I do too. Bye for now until the next awesome blog. :)

  • Michelle19

    Those are some very interesting questions Allison. The only way I can think of to answer those questions is tell you about my own experience. I grew of as a christian, when I was younger I never really took my religion seriously. When my mother used to take me to church, I used to be so bored, I felt like I would faint. As I grew older though, I got a better understanding of who Jesus Christ is and suddenly all the biblical stories that my mother used to tell me didn’t seem like fairy tales anymore. Faith isn’t something that can be thrust upon you, you have to have an understanding of what you actually believe in. And I believe in Jesus Christ, I believe He died for my sins, I believe that He shed His blood for me so that I could have abundant life. I mean, it’s up to the individual, what he/she wants to believe in, no one can force you to believe something that you don’t want to believe. I think that most people have problems believing in God because they can’t see Him and they doubt His existance. But, I’ve never seen Him but I just have a sense of assurance (a feeling that I can’t really describe) that God exist. He is real, just like the air is real and flowers are real; like the oceans are real. People find it hard to grasp that reality but it is true. All I can say is I know that Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the light, which means that He is the only avenue that you can take in life that would ever make you satisfied and completely whole. Otherwise you’ll spend you’re entire life searching. Like the songwriter says;

    When all is said and done
    And everyone is gone
    Lord You’re really all I want
    When the best the world has
    Just leaves me feeling numb
    Lord You’re really all I want

    All that I long for all that I hope for
    Is just that sense of You coming near
    All that my heart is hungry to have is
    Just one more touch from Your loving hand
    When all is said and done
    Lord You’re all I want

  • Michelle19

    By the way, I’m 19 (in case you’re thinkin’ I’m older).

  • I’m Rachel

    Great comment Michelle19. I totally agree.

  • skahahoo

    Amanda…hehe…I like my name too. :D And thanks for answering! I have another question! Any of y’all cool Christian peepz can answer if you’d like.

    Why did God or Jesus feel like they HAD to make this sacrifice…for our sins I mean? Isn’t God all-powerful? Why did He HAVE to do anything? Darwin (from this blog…not Charles…hehe) said that if Jesus didn’t agree to do this, that we all would’ve perished. But why? Is there some higher imperative or something that even God must defer to?

    Also…about Jesus’ sacrifice…is that a one-time thing? Or does He continue to suffer to this very day for our sins? The way it’s been portrayed to me…it seems like a one-time thing, after which Jesus was resurrected. But if that’s the case…how much of a sacrifice is that really? When you’re the Son of God and are going to be resurrected later anyway?

    arash! Great minds must think alike because the famous psychiatrist Carl Jung had the same idea, except he called it the “collective unconscious”…check it out:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=AHBnar7sEIIC&pg=PA498&vq=%22carl+jung+and+the+collective+unconscious%22&dq=carl+jung+collective+unconscious&source=gbs_search_s&sig=ACfU3U19DZiDaTh36jI_L1zRvGRKRZlXyg

    Peace out my peoples! :)

  • arash

    Skahahoo,
    It is not Carl Jung’s original idea either, we both had it in our collective unconsciousness from our common ancestor!

  • arash

    hey it shouldn’t it be sub-consciousness instead of unconsciousness, I didn’t pass out when I thought of that!

  • Darwin

    You are always full of good questions skahahoo!

    God and Jesus are motivated by LOVE.

    God like all great parents wants us to have every opportunity…everything he has. To emulate the best that he is…we are commanded to be perfect even as he is.

    And there are laws that govern that. The main one being justice.

    And someone had to answer the demands of justice…so mercy could prevail.

    And yes…it was a one time thing…and yes…he knew he would be ressurected…but the most suffering happened before he died in the Garden…incomprehensible pain and suffering and anguish.

    Suffering which caused the greatest of all
    to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer in both body and spirit…and would that he might not drink the bitter cup and shrink…but he DID drink of the bitter cup and suffered for us.

    Because of love.

    ALL so we COULD have the opportunity, if we chose…to follow God and obtain everything he has to give.

  • Dynell

    Wow! So many great comments on this board! I know it’s a little late but here’s mine :)

    I believe in God, Jesus Christ. I believe because 6 years ago I encountered God and something happened in me, in my life, I can’t explain it, it’s not logical, it’s not scientific. I could list historical accounts and Biblical scriptures but that not what my faith and belief is really all about (and it would probably bore you :)

    Since I encountered God I have strived to learn more about Him, (growing up I think I went to church twice so I knew nothing), and everything I read and learn and feel only draws me closer to Him. He’s not some magical being who makes everything perfect and hunky dory, we still live in a flawed, imperfect world.

    I think in my life I was blessed to be able to work at a church a few years after I accepted Christ so I could see first hand that Christ Followers (Christians), (at least the ones I am lucky enough to know) are just people, just normal, screwed up people trying to live a life that is honoring to God and show others the love He has for them, plain and simple. It’s not about rules, or ceremonies or services or tasks, it’s a relationship between me and Jesus Christ. That’s all, it’s not religion it’s a relationship and unfortunately there are those people in life who make it about rules and use Jesus’ name to condem others and cause hurt but the God I know and love came to this earth to love the “unloveable”, touch the “untouchable” and eat and speak with those that no one else would and that’s what He instructs His followers to do.

    I’m still human, I’m a sinner, always have been and always will be. I still gossip and lie and am envious and greedy and far too self-centered but I’m trying to be more other-centered and more loving and patient and kind and giving and try a little harder everyday to live a life that is honoring to God. I usually fail but for some unfathomable reason God still loves me and encourages me to try harder tomorrow. It’s like when my baby starts to walk, he may take two steps and fall, but I won’t yell at him and call him a failure, I’ll clap and cheer at his success and say “That’s so great, you did a great job! Now let’s try and take three steps this time.” And that’s how my Heavenly Father encourages me when I fail and fall.

    Whew, sorry that’s a lot. I guess I can’t explain why I believe what I believe without saying all of that because it is so personal, like trying to decribe why I love my husband or my son.But I believe because of what I’ve experienced first hand and what I have learned about Jesus. Because of what God has done in my life and in the lives of others I have seen.

    Thanks so much for this great place for everyone to share!

  • Dynell

    P.S. The analogy about the baby starting to walk is one that a pastor used in a teaching at my church, didn’t want to take credit when it’s not mine, but I love it :)

  • I’m Rachel

    I agree with Darwin,but I would like to add something if thats ok. No Jesus didn’t have to die for us. Yes God is all powerfull and could have choose not to send his Son and maybe chooes another way. But he choose to show us just how much he loves us by dying on the cross. I hope that makes it clear.

  • Darwin

    Rachel: Thank-you for the help!

    And Dynell…thank-you so much as well for your wonderful sharing of those wonderfully personal things!

    And as you are a loving mother I am certain that the anology of the baby starting to walk would have occured to you anyway!

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    I thought this was interesting. People from a church I belonged to went on a mission trip to Detroit, Michigan to do door to door witnessing to their faith and beliefs as Christians are called to do. One of the things they encountred over and over were people who picked up the Bible and read it on their own. Skahahoo’s question and Darwin’s response brought this bck to me because one of the questions that was far from uncommon was why Christ didn’t learn his lesson and give up — why he had to be put to death so many times. They said that He was put to death in the book of Matthew and rose again only to be put to death and rise again in Mark, Luke and John. There was a time in this country where a politician could say a single obscure phrase and people would know it was from the Bible, the context and what the politician meant by invoking it.

  • Miranda

    “What is it that solidified these beliefs? Why believe in what you believe in?”

    My brain seems to work differently than other brains. None of the religions I know about really worked for me, so I made up my own, based on experience and my likely skewed view of things. It’s a little complex and sometimes when I try to explain it to people they look at me funny. But it works for me, and that’s what matters, right?

  • Mikael

    Do you know how many weird things people say have happened to them? Not every phenomenon is worth investigation. Also if your familiar with psychology you know why you see faces in the dark and hear voices in silence, its to do due with how our brain forms models of the world, you see a face because your brain wants to see a face for lack of a better term. The way you can can rule out god is not by looking in every point in the universe or investigating the claims to have seen him. Its by finding out how things really happened. Like say the sickness thing i talked about. The more we find out the smaller is gods role, about 7000bc god did everything, then agriculture came by i dont know some 8000 years ago, by the year 300bc we had some answers about aerodynamics. And so on.

  • Nikk

    Kris Says:
    August 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 am

    I hope you find it someday.

    I highly doubt I will.

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    True. But there is also a thing called academic pressure where the human element takes hold in a scientist who can’t prove what he has decided to prove (rather than follow the evidence to its conclusion) and fudges the results to make the data say what he wants it to. Just like innocent people falsely accused in prison due to judicial shortcuts, there are flawed theories free in the world due to people wanting recognition when their work isn’t ready.

    But I do understand. If someone says “Ben Franklin was the first President of the United States” and you correct him, how frustrating it is for the crowd to come back with “There is no right and no wrong. Everyone is entitled to there opinion and each opinion is equally valid. After all it is a democracy.” How did these people get through school? One reason I dropped out of school was that, in my particular major, you could learn all the dos and don’ts over a six year period of intensive training and everyone you encountered later would still believe that their opinion how to do things after 10 seconds accumulated lifetime consideration on the issue was a valid as that of a degreed professional. Very frustrating. But when you get to a point that you can’t trust people anymore and all the books ever written (with perhaps a few exceptions that I won’t go into) were written by humans … possibly with agendas. And as you get older and can’t even trust your senses and can’t trust the devices that are made to enhance our senses, then where does that lead you. About the last part, I find that people don’t believe how they do their job effects anyone else. I had a large right triangle with a rather large radius as one edge. It would rock on a flat surface … if I could trust the surface to be flat. I don’t know how many inccurate projections I made and then finalized in ink before I found out that my tool couldn’t be trusted. So, sorry if I frustrate you by changing camps to limit my own level of frustration. It shouldn’t matter what I think anyway. This blog is not about me.

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    Nikk Says:
    “August 23rd, 2008 at 7:43 am
    Kris Says:
    August 22nd, 2008 at 7:55 am

    I hope you find it someday.

    I highly doubt I will.”

    Why don’t you look over there … under the coffee table … next to those socks and the remote control for the DVD.

  • skahahoo

    David Hayes! I toooooootally understand where you’re coming from. On the one hand, I feel like there has to be some standard of when it comes to judging the “correctness” of knowledge, but on the other hand, in order for me to get through this life, I need to place my faith in the standards that have been around for a while. So I choose to have faith. I simply don’t have the time to do everything myself otherwise. lol.

    Darwin & I’m Rachel – Thanks for answering my questions! I understand that God was motivated by love to make the choice that He did. I guess what I was wondering was why He had to make that choice in the first place, not why He made the choice that He did. Darwin said that there are laws that exist, one of them being justice. I can see that. If God is the embodiment of good, then He should also be just, and it would be hypocritical to let sin go unpunished simply because He has the power to. Or am I completely misunderstanding the point? lol.

  • http://www.daybow.com David Hayes

    Esther in the Bible was a Jewish that the king married not knowing that she was Jewish. He got tricked into ordring that all Jewish people be put to death. When he changed his mind, as King he couldn’t take back the order he had given. What he was able to do was make a proclamation that the Jews were allowed to defend themselves from any attack. Perhaps God works within his own rules that he has decided to abide by. He couldn’t set up a new order allowing sins to be forgiven without Jesus’s sacrifice.

    Saying that, I really don’t like it when people try to justify God by explaining Him then deciding that their interpretations are canon. Who can explain God for God? Who has the right and the mind to be able to think on a par with God to understand how He reasons and how He works?

  • Dynell

    You are very welcome Darwin, and thank you for your kind words!

  • Darwin

    You are MOST welcome Dynell!

    Skahahoo!: I think you grasp the point wonderfully!

    David Hayes: So you are saying God needs someone here with…The Power of Attorney?

    *smiles*

    In the large scale…scriptures say prophets and apostles…

    In the smaller scale…everytime we love instead of hate and do a kindness where one is needed…and basically make the world a better place by doing so…then we are his ambassadors.

    Including the athiests. *smiles*

  • Mikael

    Right. Good answer man. Noone can explain him.. So now you believe in someone who can not be explained when it seems wrong to modern ethics, and can be proven by any means. Dosent it say anything to you. That the morals he has is from a former age? He talks about slaves and he miss treats women, and noone seem to care. He gives a guy lots of slaves, and his wife says have sex with one of them. If the things god did in the bible happened today, if i took my son to the forest and tried to kill him and then said -God told me. I would go to jail. or be treated at a hospital. But when the bible says it, its fine. So why is the bible this way? Because it is out of date. It was written a long time ago and it dosent go with our culture today.

  • Darwin

    Mikael: I see where you said you have read the Bible over twice! I applaud you!

    Many churchgoers have not!

    I myself have read it many many times.

    And you are right, much of it is “history” that has to do with the times it is written in.

    Even much of the revelations…

    For instance…we have no need to prepare for a planet-wide flood…that’s be done and the promise is God will not to do so again…which is repeated evrytime a rainbow is seen.

    The things that Adam dealt with are not the things that Enoch dealt with and are not exactly the same as Abraham dealt with.

    And Abraham did not have the exact same problems as Moses.

    So too…as parents…we do not teach our
    two year olds the same as we would our teenagers…because we expect more ability to be self-sufficient and responsible from the older children.

    Hence the difference between the Old and New Testament.

    Those who misbehaved, were stubborn and quick to do iniquity and slow to remember God were given VERY strict laws of performances and ordinances to observe strictly everyday to help to keep them in remberance of thier God.

    Then the world and God’s children on it progressed to where the Sermon on the Mount rules came in…because there was NO value in implementing them earlier as the people were not remotely ready to follow them and would fail.

    But a careful study shows love being exampled all the way through and taught to those who would be able to discern.

    And love is the basis as well now.

    But we DO need current revelation for our times…which is why we continue to pray.

    God speaks forth his words according to his own pleasure…and because he has spoken one word you need not suppose than he cannot speak another…

    …for his work is not yet finished. Neither shall it be until the end of man.

    He gives to the children of men line upon line and precept upon precept…here a little and there a little…and whoever receives it shall receive more.

  • Lizeth

    My personal experience of awakening, enlightenment or salvation may be all too easily cast into the form of an idol, betraying the transcendence, sovereignty and saving grace of Divine Prosperity.
    When I identify my own experience of regeneration, redemption or rebirth as the only true expression of renewing love, healing peace and transforming light, I witness to my ignorance of prosperity and its reality beyond the pale of conventional belief.

    Such belief alienates me from the wealth of faith I inherit as I learn of the saving grace in the lives of others and beyond the limits of my own expectation. The world, and my world, is a poorer place when I impose this lack on others and on myself.

    When I embrace experiences of prosperity wherever they are found, in meditation and with acceptance, they become beatitudes and parables, inspiring me to be responsible with this wealth…

    learning along the way…

    …to be a blessing.

  • Mikael

    Darwin, your polite and nice to talk to. And for that i thank you. But you just explained nothing. For if god is almighty he would not change his mind so therefore the basic ethics would be the same in the old and the new testament, but the only thing in there thats consistent is “You should not hurt another Jew” and “This god is the only god”. Perhaps some minor things aswell, but the thing is the moral basis should be the same for if he is almighty he would always know the future the therefore not change his mind for he would already have done that. Also, the flood was real but not as big as you believe, the size of the flood in the bible, have been done after aswell. You cant believe Noacs ark story. Even if i agree that god brings all the animals and that they help build it. Its still to small to bare all the animals, there are measurements in the bible. Its a big boat for its time about 14m long and 4m wide, but thats clearly not big enough. Its 1,100 species of bats in the world. Thats just bats and if would take up about 2m2 of the boat and thats if they cant move at all.

  • Darwin

    Actually…I have heard the ark described as bigger by scientists…not people with nay religious agenda.

    There appears to be a debate about the size of the basic unit of measure…same name different size.

    The upshot is they don’t know for certain.

    Which true for a lot of things.

    So much of science now is profit driven…
    specific results for specific corpoate agendas…sloppy results because of pressure to get results…or sloppy results to float a theory first.

    Or to save time and money they do not take into account all the possible variables
    and thus narrow their parameters so much they miss the truth entirely.

    I mean NASA’s new space vehicle is delayed because instead of incorporating
    safety concerns from the initial design and improving and refining…they have yet to include them at all.

    I know of instances where entire communities funded many expensive studies because of lack of available water
    only for some non-scientist to mention that the control valve simply needed to be open further in the water plant.

    People DO NOT always have people’s bests interests at heart. People can be greedy and selfish and do things to feed their egos and be arrogent and stupid all at the same time.

    Which is a VERY dangerous combination.

    I am not so easily conned.

  • Darwin

    Oh right!

    And one also has to ask: When did God stop creating animals?

    Many heretofore unknown species are cropping up all the time.

    How many varieties were available at the time of Noah?

    The tradition of a great flood is found in nearly every ancient culture. A Babylonian account cloely resembles the record in the Bible, but the biblical account differs from all the others in it’s religious value and the purpose of it. The scriptural account teaches that the flood was sent to cleanse the earth because of the wickedness of the people.

    One could even consider it the earth’s baptism by immersion.

  • http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/carriers_4u Rick

    What is it that solidified these beliefs? Why believe in what you believe in?
    Alison this is quite the question.
    Straight -up!
    In whom or what do you believe?
    Who is Jesus to you?
    I believe in Jesus Christ and that he came to set us free from our bondage of sin so when we do die we know that we will be in heaven with him. Religion,Spiritually concepts and other sanctions will not save your sole. The bible and only the bible holds all truth. The crazy thing is people do not even pick it up to read it much and we should.

    So for me to solidified and why is based on this.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    There is no redemption or saving power in any religion this only comes from Jesus Christ.

    Find church that is bible based preaches the truth and get involved.

    Jesus solidifies
    By faith in Gods word is why.
    To know the truth and the truth will set you free.
    Thanks Alison I hope you truly get the chance to contact me.
    Be Blesed

  • Mikael

    I went with what the bible said.
    Is the book of origin he created all animals. And the 6th day he was done and rested at the 7th. Still the flood is in pretty recent times. Its about 5000 years ago i recon, Believe me, there were many animals back then. And even if the boat was double the size of what it says im my bible its not possible for all animals to be carried in it. Also he had to keep them apart or they would have eaten each other and they reproduced etc. They must have food for all the animals. For this to work it needs to be atleast a km wide and 10 km long. And im pretty sure it would not be enough. She would need to be bigger i think.

  • Darwin

    There are also many varieties of ethnic peoples now…and this from only eight people on the ark.

    Whatever size the ark was it could only hold what it would hold. Whatever came after came after.

  • Mikael

    Well if you reject all reason there is nothing i can say. The world was not flooded, do you really think that the bible would the the only src if that was true, also we have archaeological evidence, and not fossils, we have pots, monuments , statues, natural evidence aswell. We have so much data on the period that we can safely say noaks ark is not true.

  • Darwin

    I already said the Bible was not the only source and that the tradition of the great flood is found in almost every ancient culture.

    The main point being Mikael, in the choice to believe either you are God…
    the choice will always be God.

  • Darwin

    TYPO: should read…you OR God…

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