James, sadly, those who do not have a conscience are like that for there entire lives. It can’t be rebuilt; it’s not broken; it’s simply just not there. The disorder for one who lacks a conscience is classified as psychopathy, and if you read ‘Mask of Sanity’ Cleckley does a good job of setting the record straight, as he studied psychopaths for years. The Joker would be considered a psychopath. He probably exhibited homicidal tendencies as early as the age of 6. Abuse plays a role, and it is more likely in men then woman, however if you are taught and treated with neglect and abuse, chances are that is all you’ll ever know, and sometimes that is all it takes.

“Denebola Says:
August 29th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

Scott:
That’s good! I’m not saying everybody has that opposing voice in their head, but a lot of people do, and I’m one of them. What I was talking about is that voice that guilt-trips me over inconsequential things, not my actual, inherent conscience.”

Ah, I see. I… don’t know what to call that. I have a lot of shoulds, but they’re not any part of my conscience. They’re simply an element of something I don’t particularly want to do, or can’t do at that moment for a good reason. I typically follow the urges granted me by my conscience.

“# Medina Says:
August 29th, 2008 at 7:06 pm

why you so serious?”

WRY SO SIRIUS

Y so C ri S

I think, the Joker (who we’ll use as a reference for all psychopaths) managed to “tune out” his conscience. He was born with one–the same as anyone else–but through everyday, little things, managed to slowly override his nature to do the right thing.

I live in Minnesota, and I recently toured an artist’s gallery. Her name is Della Conroy, and, since I toured with a small group, she gave a mini-lecture afterwards. Someone asked her how she feels about talent–if it’s acquired, or given.

She told us she believes everyone is born with the same abilities, the same level of skill. But our interests, our passions, cause us to do what we like, so we gain skill through practice. For example, a young girl loves to draw, so she does a little everyday, and by her teenage years, she’s quite talented.

I believe the same of conscience. We’re all born on the same level. So, when Batman and Joker are born, they’re the same. Outside influences–insults, praise, bad parenting, good parenting–are what truly guide us.

The conscience is a defult; black and white, good vs. evil. So, as a child, you see this clearly; it’s why children are so often called pure.

But then, say you’re eight, and you see your big brother bullying the neighbor. You know it’s wrong; your conscience is telling you that. But, can logic overrule emotion? Here your conscience is logic; the black and white, and your big brother is emotion; the gray, that you have an emotional connection to.

At this point, you’re back to nature vs. nurture. Which skills you’ve honed; have you become a logical adult, or an emotional adult?

So, Joker becomes an emotional adult. Trauma in his life, that he decides to handle poorly (as compared to Batman, who represents the non-psychopaths), affects his conscience. He’s hurting, so he wants to make others hurt–to hell with Jiminy Cricket.

And each time Joker ignores the little guy, it gets easier.

Now, since we’re on this topic, I do have to put this out there; Lex Luthor. I am a Superman geek, as well as (obviously) a Smallville one.

I think my above rantings fits with Smallville’s version of Lex Luthor. In the beginning (Season One), he know’s his father is bad. This is his conscience. He fights outside sources, trying to force him to his “nature,” his badness. But he fights them.

This is conscience. Fighting the bad, because, logically, you strive for good.

So he has all of these outside forces pushing him one way. Well, eventually, they’ll probably win out. Emotion usually does win over logic. So, he starts to ignore the conscience, the logic, and listen to the outside influences.

As he slowly ignores Jiminy, it gets easier. This is what we witnessed over last few seasons.

I think it’s really interesting that you can find so many examples of consciousness (at least how I percieve it) in classic tales of good vs. evil. Granted, they may be the more emotionally probing versions, like Smallville and Dark Knight, but it’s always there, even in small doses.

I hope my opinion serves you some purpose

Hey Alli-Mack & everyone else that reads this,

I hope your Friday went well!

Anyways…Here goes.

I believe we all have a moral sense, that is naturally embedded in the heart of each of us by God. I believe that by nature a person will approve or condemn their own acts. And I believe it is what we use to judge others acts. Though we can’t force anyone to do or believe anything, we need to understand that our actions do influence people to go against their conscience, either for the good or the bad of that persons moral health. No one is an island unto themselves. We live in a small community called Earth and we all have moral responsibilities.
But there seem to be those that have a conscience but it has been seared, like with a hot iron, and left them insensitive to others and even their own needs in this moral tapestry of wills. They seem to be left with the inability to respond normally.
Life isn’t fair and it never will be, at least not on this side of heaven and can lead to people to lose hope, lose respect for themselves, for others, and for God.
We can’t always choose the things that happen to us in life, but we can choose how we respond to them. Some are more sensitive and some are less sensitive to right and wrong than others, but that doesn’t remove them from responsibility for their actions.

I believe we all have the framework for a good moral compass, but if the user (us) doesn’t keep in touch with the designer of that compass, we will all lose our way.

i believe that we all have a consience. there are some people like me, who chose to ignore it. when i was 22, my boyfriend of only one month, he asked me to marry him. i heard that voice in my head and i chose to ignore it. it was the worst decision i ever made. i did for personal reasons. but i did learn a lot from it. it did make me the person i am today. i am now remarried and very happy with my child and husband. i loved the dark knight to. looking forward to when you direct smallville allison. i know you will do a great job!

This is off topic, but I don’t agree with the opinion of Della Conroy as posted by Libby. People should be born with equal freedoms and rights under the law … but I don’t believe we are born with equal abilities and potentials for all skills. Interest, passion and commitment will to a very large degree tell how far a person goes in life but some people do start with an advantage and some have the deck stacked against them. Extreme examples are child prodigies whom some believe are proof of reincarnation (skills picked up over several lifetimes). Another extreme would be children born with severe physical deformities and who could never be exceptional athletes or dancers even if that was their ambition. But between the extreme examples and the normal human aptitudes is a wide range of physical predispositions that would aid or hinder certain professions. I have a friend whose artwork is excellent. You would never guess that he is color blind. He has excelled far beyond what his physical condition would seem to allow. I strongly believe that someone with very little physical predisposition for an avocation but an intense desire and drive can excel beyond what someone with innate skills and very little motivation can do. A personal example would be me and my younger step-son. I showed some ability to draw at an early age but had to really work to make myself a passable but not professional artist. My step-son could pick up a pencil any time he chose and create something very good without trying. It was so easy for him that he never felt the need to apply himself. Had he really tried, he could have surpassed anything I ever did. But he didn’t. I have some friends that pick up languages with about as much effort as I pick up my cat (granted, he is a very heavy cat). I am lucky that I understand my native language and it feels like those skills are slipping away from me every day. So my opinion is that we are not born with the same potential for learning any given task.

Another side issue is the weight we give to what a successful person has to say about how to succeed. Della Conroy is a successful artist so when she says that everyone can be as successful as her in art if they want to be, people buy it. One of the most successful artists in history in my opinion was the man that invented the yellow smiley face. He earned a total of less than $100.00 for what he did and I don’t know anyone that even knows his name (no, it wasn’t Forrest Gump). But his masterpiece impacted the world and was duplicated and displayed all around the world. What was his secret to success? What works for one person doesn’t work for everyone and equal efforts don’t always or even usually earn equal rewards. Again, this is my opinion. I have this story in my head about 2 people on a talk show arguing their divergent philosophies for success. One man says “Always look up!” The other man says “Always keep grounded – look at what’s in your path immediately in front of you!” They each followed their philosophies to great wealth and they are both convinced that their method is the best way to succeed. The one man looked up and saw a satchel snagged on a tree limb. It was full of money. The other found a large bag of money on the curb. Did the sudden influx of money make them suddenly brilliant? I think not. Again, that’s just my humble opinion.

Hey Allison, I believe our conscience is formed by our surroundings. The right and wrong can be very different for some people, because of what the’ve been through or what they have witnessed and so on. The Joker in the Dark night, I really want to see that movie. Hmm maybe the Joker was good, then again maybe when he was little he was placed in an environnement where evil was the only thing that could get him through paths or whatsoever. Who knows, maybe he could have been placed in situations where doing the wrong thing could save his life. I have the gut feeling all the time when I make decisions. Altighty well bye for now! XXXOOO Britt

Morality, the ethics of rights and wrongs, is all based on what was built from human history. It’s basically to put humanity on a pedestal, for being beings of higher consciousness than any other in the animal kingdom. Still, other species would kill mostly for a purpose of survival or protection, whilst human beings can do horrid things for a reason that we would not think of as being valid.

One of the Joker’s lines, “Let’s introduce a little anarchy”, confirms that he doesn’t follow any rules, whether it be from social conditioning or from a higher power. A teacher once told me that one of the first groups of anarchists actually meant to do good by opposing against an oppressive government (i.e.: a monarchy or something in the likes of Robin Hood or… The Green Arrow! Haha!), etc… but those who have a different conception of anarchy just think that they can do anything they want in a radical way, and it can, sadly, include unnecessary violence.

As most of the previous comments said, people like the Joker are socially conditioned by many factors that make them how they are.

I recently saw a documentary on how nurturing is passed down from a mother to their children and to future generations. The animals that received good nurturing somehow keep a “gene” that allowed the species to pass down good nurturing instincts or what we, humans, would see as “love”. The young ones that didn’t receive any nurturing from the mother would eventually lose that “gene” and would not give good nurturing to their own children, and they would live under high stress levels. This might give a clue to how someone like the Joker could exist (absence of love?). (I would like to remember where I saw this documentary on what seems to be the science of nurturing, or “love genes”… It was probably something on PBS.) As the Beatles would sing: “All you need is love”, probably to make life better for yourself and others around you.

Wow, being drained from a concert sure gives me inspiration to write a lot!!!